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	<title>Comments on: Thoughts on New Creation Church &#8211; Man-centered or God-centered? Part Two</title>
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	<link>http://www.stillhaventfound.org/2008/03/18/thoughts-on-new-creation-church-man-centered-or-god-centered-part-two/</link>
	<description>declaring and bringing heaven here on earth</description>
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		<title>By: stillhaventfound</title>
		<link>http://www.stillhaventfound.org/2008/03/18/thoughts-on-new-creation-church-man-centered-or-god-centered-part-two/#comment-15343</link>
		<dc:creator>stillhaventfound</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Mar 2008 04:15:11 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Hi Lois,

Yes, truth is important. The devil is after all known as the father of lies. He accuses and brings condemnation. That&#039;s his number one way of deceiving and leading Christians astray. And that&#039;s why we have to continue to watch our thoughts, speech and minds and constantly renew our minds with the truth, for by doing so we&#039;ll be transformed (Rom. 12:2)

As Pastor Prince always points out, truth is on the side of grace, not law (John 1:17). Truth is ultimately about the truth of Jesus Christ - what He did for us and who we are in Him. Both truth and grace are intimately linked. Truth doesn&#039;t bring us condemnation in Christ. Such &quot;truth&quot; is not truth at all, but lies from the devil. Rather, it gives us everything in Christ. As you said, it&#039;s both grace and truth working together.

In relation to this post, I think a lie of the devil is to make Christians and non-Christians think that God is everything and only about Himself. That God only cares for His glory and He only wants people to bring Him glory and obey Him. It sounds spiritual and godly to say that God is totally and only God-centered and His primary concern in all He does is about Him receiving all glory. Maybe I&#039;m wrong, but I don&#039;t see the Bible portraying God that way. I see the Bible as a whole story of God&#039;s love for man and His rescue of man - from Genesis till the very end.

While there is the element of people bringing God glory and all in the Bible, such praise and worship is inspired, motivated and empowered primarily by God&#039;s love for us in the gospel of Jesus Christ. When we experience the fullness of God&#039;s love for us in Christ, then we&#039;ll want to worship Him more and more. Without that understanding and experience, there&#039;ll be no desire to do so. There&#039;s no use in people trying to work out some love for God without having first experienced His love. In the same way, I think there&#039;s no use in preachers &lt;em&gt;constantly &lt;/em&gt;harping on the fact that God cares only about His glory and that we ought to bring glory to Him in all we do. I think we should focus more on preaching the gospel and unveiling the beauty of Christ. As Christians experience the love of Christ more and more, that&#039;s when they will grow in their desire to bring glory to God. Not because God demands that of them. But more so because their hearts are so filled with God&#039;s love in Christ that they just want to love Him back.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Lois,</p>
<p>Yes, truth is important. The devil is after all known as the father of lies. He accuses and brings condemnation. That&#8217;s his number one way of deceiving and leading Christians astray. And that&#8217;s why we have to continue to watch our thoughts, speech and minds and constantly renew our minds with the truth, for by doing so we&#8217;ll be transformed (Rom. 12:2)</p>
<p>As Pastor Prince always points out, truth is on the side of grace, not law (John 1:17). Truth is ultimately about the truth of Jesus Christ &#8211; what He did for us and who we are in Him. Both truth and grace are intimately linked. Truth doesn&#8217;t bring us condemnation in Christ. Such &#8220;truth&#8221; is not truth at all, but lies from the devil. Rather, it gives us everything in Christ. As you said, it&#8217;s both grace and truth working together.</p>
<p>In relation to this post, I think a lie of the devil is to make Christians and non-Christians think that God is everything and only about Himself. That God only cares for His glory and He only wants people to bring Him glory and obey Him. It sounds spiritual and godly to say that God is totally and only God-centered and His primary concern in all He does is about Him receiving all glory. Maybe I&#8217;m wrong, but I don&#8217;t see the Bible portraying God that way. I see the Bible as a whole story of God&#8217;s love for man and His rescue of man &#8211; from Genesis till the very end.</p>
<p>While there is the element of people bringing God glory and all in the Bible, such praise and worship is inspired, motivated and empowered primarily by God&#8217;s love for us in the gospel of Jesus Christ. When we experience the fullness of God&#8217;s love for us in Christ, then we&#8217;ll want to worship Him more and more. Without that understanding and experience, there&#8217;ll be no desire to do so. There&#8217;s no use in people trying to work out some love for God without having first experienced His love. In the same way, I think there&#8217;s no use in preachers <em>constantly </em>harping on the fact that God cares only about His glory and that we ought to bring glory to Him in all we do. I think we should focus more on preaching the gospel and unveiling the beauty of Christ. As Christians experience the love of Christ more and more, that&#8217;s when they will grow in their desire to bring glory to God. Not because God demands that of them. But more so because their hearts are so filled with God&#8217;s love in Christ that they just want to love Him back.</p>
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		<title>By: Lois</title>
		<link>http://www.stillhaventfound.org/2008/03/18/thoughts-on-new-creation-church-man-centered-or-god-centered-part-two/#comment-15337</link>
		<dc:creator>Lois</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Mar 2008 02:39:36 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Hi my fren,

Thanks for the post! I just wanted to add on about the part on our worthiness and our depravity. Hmm, I&#039;ve read this book by Henry Cloud, its called &quot;Changes that heal&quot;. In the book, he says there are 3 elements that we need to have, that is Grace, Truth and Time.

I quote:
&quot;With grace alone, we are safe from condemnation, but we cannot experience true intimacy. When the one who offers grace also offers truth (truth about who we are, truth about who he or she is, and truth about the world around us), and we respond with our true self, then intimacy is possible. Real intimacy always comes in the company of truth&quot;.

My view is that we are precious is God&#039;s eyes, and we are of so much worth that He is willing to send His son for us. Yet in and of ourselves, our hearts often fall away from God, and do not respond to Him accordingly. It is when we know the truth about ourselves, and know that in spite of that, we are accepted by Christ, whereby true intimacy comes. That is when I think both grace and truth work together.

Henry Cloud went on to talk abt the example of the woman who was being stoned for adultery, Jesus offered grace in the form of forgiveness and acceptance. He accepted her with full realisation of who she was: an adulteress. &quot;He accepted her true self, a woman with sinful desires and actions. He then gives her direction for the future.&quot;- go now and leave yr life of sin.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi my fren,</p>
<p>Thanks for the post! I just wanted to add on about the part on our worthiness and our depravity. Hmm, I&#8217;ve read this book by Henry Cloud, its called &#8220;Changes that heal&#8221;. In the book, he says there are 3 elements that we need to have, that is Grace, Truth and Time.</p>
<p>I quote:<br />
&#8220;With grace alone, we are safe from condemnation, but we cannot experience true intimacy. When the one who offers grace also offers truth (truth about who we are, truth about who he or she is, and truth about the world around us), and we respond with our true self, then intimacy is possible. Real intimacy always comes in the company of truth&#8221;.</p>
<p>My view is that we are precious is God&#8217;s eyes, and we are of so much worth that He is willing to send His son for us. Yet in and of ourselves, our hearts often fall away from God, and do not respond to Him accordingly. It is when we know the truth about ourselves, and know that in spite of that, we are accepted by Christ, whereby true intimacy comes. That is when I think both grace and truth work together.</p>
<p>Henry Cloud went on to talk abt the example of the woman who was being stoned for adultery, Jesus offered grace in the form of forgiveness and acceptance. He accepted her with full realisation of who she was: an adulteress. &#8220;He accepted her true self, a woman with sinful desires and actions. He then gives her direction for the future.&#8221;- go now and leave yr life of sin.</p>
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