Just watched the above. Awesome, awesome stuff. Need to watch more of these kind of things! The more I watch them, the more my heart is challenged to get out of this comfort zone which I’ve been in far too long. As I mentioned here, reading The Heavenly Man really challenged me. And I’ll probably look back upon that as a defining moment in my life. It made me think really seriously about being a missionary to China. It made me think seriously about being a missionary to a persecuted area. It made me think seriously about improving my really bad Chinese (Mandarin)!
I stopped learning Chinese when I was 10 years old when I left for Australia. When I returned back to Singapore, I didn’t want to study Chinese (I had too much to catch up) and was allowed to take German as my second language. So I’m your typical English-educated Banana/Potato (white on the inside, yellow on the outside for those not in the know) Singaporean who grew up not really liking Chinese. Of course I regret not continuing my Chinese because I’m so far behind now. People talk about Singaporeans being poor in their Chinese and that makes me even more discouraged to pick it up now because I’m so much worse than the typical Singaporean of my age! But I think I may pick it up real soon. Not sure whether I should because I don’t know if I’ll use it in future. Besides the fact that I’d like to spend time mastering my Spanish, I’m also not sure if I’ll go to China in future. I think there are places in the world that need missionaries more urgently than China - like Muslim nations and the unreached places. And anyway, I’m not sure how much I’m needed in China. The lives of Christians there would put all of us to shame. They know what it means to live for Jesus more than any of us. They know what persecution is about and they’d gladly suffer it. That can’t be said of us in the developed world. They’d make so much better missionaries to unsafe places (like Muslim nations) because they’ve experienced enough in their own country to not fear persecution!
Christianity in China is easily the real deal - clearly what Christianity is meant to be like. Of course, such forms of Christianity (when people are truly living for God and not building their own kingdom) are seen everywhere. But I don’t see much of it in the developed world. The Christians in China and places like that are the true warriors of faith. No doubt about that. No Christian leader in the developed world (no matter how famous or well-known) could even compare to most of those faceless heroes in China and the like.
I can’t wait to get Brother Yun’s new book Living Water. Though I don’t expect to agree with all the teachings in it (the book is meant to be of his teachings). I can admire his dedication to God without agreeing with everything he teaches. One can live the true Christian life without having one’s doctrines perfect, just as one can have his doctrines perfect (or more perfect) yet not live as one ought to live. I admire his lifestyle. But I probably wouldn’t agree with everything he teaches. I wasn’t comfortable with some of the songs I heard on the above video which focused more on what the Christians are going to do for God, rather than on what God has done for them in Christ. I still love grace and believe that good biblical teaching and preaching should be focused primarily on God’s grace as shown to us in Christ’s death for us. And that’s clear in the posts I’ve written on grace. What God has done for us in Christ is what the gospel is all about. The gospel of Christ is the message of God’s love for us in Christ. The gospel is not about about what we ought to do for God, it’s what God has already done for us. And yet there’s also a side of me that believes so greatly on giving my all to God - a place I’m very far from now, of course. (If I’m truly living that out, I won’t have time to blog. Duh!) I believe that Christians are called to give their all, to stop building their kingdom (which I think most Christians are actually doing, especially in the developed world) and to start living wholeheartedly for God and His glory alone. How do I reconcile the emphasis on God’s grace and the call to give all? It’s difficult. There’s a certain tension there, I admit. I love New Creation’s grace message (not everything, but a lot), but in my opinion there’s no way that the lives of the majority of the members of New Creation reflect how Christians are meant to live. I love the passion and zeal among City Harvest members for the lost (when they’re not thinking only of money), though I can’t agree with a lot of the teachings which lack the focus of grace. The lifestyle of City Harvest members challenges me (when they’re not chasing after money). I want to be in such an environment. It’s definitely closer to what I envision Christianity is meant to be, than it is in New Creation. The missions and reaching the lost. That’s beyond exciting! That’s what it’s meant to be like!
While I’ve been generally supportive of the Florida Healing Revival, I’d prefer to see Christianity in China as a model of how Christianity ought to be like. Up to this point, I don’t doubt that what’s happening in Florida is the work of God. But we also have to get our perspectives right. Christianity isn’t all about healing and miracles. Jesus promised persecution. Christianity as it’s meant to be would be filled with healings, miracles and persecutions too. It’ll be filled with suffering and victory. All of that happened in Brother Yun’s life and in the lives of many Chinese Christians. And I’m very sure that one day the Church will be awakened from its state of slumber. We will see increased healings and miracles, but also increased persecution. To tell you the truth, I can’t wait for that day…
I want to touch on some negative criticisms in this post and the next one. In my previous post, I linked to some ultra-critical websites - not because I totally agree with them but because I think it’s wrong not to take into account some specific critical comments by them. Take for example this testimony of someone whose friend, a pastor, was proclaimed healed by Todd Bentley, but who died soon after. How do people who are more positive towards the revival react to this?
I’m mentioning this testimony because I believe it’s important to deal with it. A lot of people reject the charismatic movement because there’s been a lot of abuses and excesses. If only charismatics would be more open to criticisms and recognize the correctness of certain criticisms, then there would be less anti-charismatics around and the charismatic movement would be more mature. There’s been dogmatism in both the charismatic and non-charismatic worlds of Christianity - not just in the non-charismatic world. And if we let go of that dogmatism, both sides can learn much from each other.
It’s the same thing with revivals. There’ll be a lot of abuses and excesses. And if the proponents of revivals would recognize this and be open to criticisms and if criticisms were done in a gentle and loving way, the revival would learn from its mistakes and more people would be open to God’s move.
Melinda Fish wrote the below regarding the Toronto Blessing:
Leaders must be confident they are acting out of obedience to the Lord, yet gentle in their approach to their parishioners. This is no time to display arrogance or imply that anyone reluctant to jump into the river is unspiritual or does not love God.
Beloved, can we refrain from using words like false prophet, deception… and demonic in reference to those with whom we disagree? Can we speak gently and humbly to our brothers and sisters, so that we may turn them around rather than provoke them to anger? Can we entertain the possibility that we, too, might be wrong in certain aspects? Can we, as mature Christians, be easily entreated, sympathetic, kind to all and patient when wronged?
I’m going to assume that the above testimony (of the pastor being proclaimed healed but then dying later on) is true in its every detail, which of course may not be correct. It’s very possible that the testimony is not accurate and this doesn’t have to be because the person was seeking to deceive others. There could be miscommunication involved. But I’ll give the author of the testimony the benefit of the doubt and assuming what was said is true, I think that Todd Bentley needs to respond to this unfortunate situation. That’s the right thing to do. It’ll be an uncomfortable thing to do, but it’s the right thing to do. How he ought to respond to it, I don’t know. But I know if he doesn’t respond to it, I don’t fault people for being disillusioned with him and the revival.
For me, even if Todd was at fault in this situation, I will not condemn the revival as fake or demonic because of it. Todd isn’t perfect. God works through imperfect people. I don’t believe that if a person prophecies falsely or proclaims wrongly that someone is healed, that that person is a false prophet and dangerous. Surely, false prophecies ought not to be treated lightly. Years back I was very disturbed that a well-known prophecy regarding the people in my country was proven false and that no one seemed to care about it. I talked with my pastor and friends about it and argued that someone should confront this person who prophesied falsely. I treated this issue seriously. It wasn’t that hard to confront the people (all well-known leaders) who accepted this prophecy and distributed it. It wasn’t difficult to confront the person who prophesied. But I knew that most wouldn’t care. And surely, no one I talked to cared much. I wasn’t too happy with how they treated a false prophecy lightly. But being a charismatic for a long time, I expected people to treat false prophecies lightly and not to care that much. There are definitely a lot of abuses regarding prophecies in the charismatic world.
All I wanted was for the person to own up to his mistake and the leaders who distributed the prophecies to own up to theirs. This is the right thing to do. It’s about honesty and integrity. It’s what God would want of those involved. My charismatic theology accepts that these things happen - i.e. we’re imperfect in our hearing from God and in our prophecies. That’s why I don’t like it when people speak with so much certainty of having heard from God because it may not be so. We should all have a bit more humility in this area. And when we’re wrong in our hearing from God, we need to own up to our mistakes, not sweep them under the carpet.
Of course, I know many non-charismatics have a different view of prophecies and think that if a person prophecies wrongly, that means the person is a false prophet or of the devil. I don’t believe that. That’s why I’m accepting of people who prophecy wrongly. And I won’t say that Todd or the revival is of the devil just because of this unfortunate incident. But I do expect them to deal with the criticism, apologize if needed and reflect upon the situation. Not doing so will just cause more people to be disillusioned and turned off from the revival.
So I don’t treat false prophecies lightly. But I don’t believe that every single false prophecy is a reflection that the person is from the devil. No, I just think it’s a reflection of our human fallibility and that we’re not perfect when hearing from God.
I do think critics of the revival should recognize that the revival can still be of God eventhough there’s so much imperfection and human error. But I also think that those who are in the revival ought to realize this too. If they do, then they won’t be afraid of confronting and dealing with every mistake they make and every imperfection that occurs. They won’t need to be overly defensive of everything. They will realize that it’s OK to be wrong in certain areas and thus not be afraid to confess their wrongs because they will know that God is gracious and moves in spite of our imperfections and mistakes.
So I’m OK with Todd having made such a serious mistake - if indeed he did. Even if he did, I’m still more positive about the revival than not. Pointing out that mistake (and even if there are many mistakes) doesn’t mean that the whole thing is of the devil. I mean, we got to consider the healings too. There have been many healed. What are we going to say about that? I’m quite surprised that critics of the revival so easily point out all the bad things but never comment on all the good that’s been done. We have to be balanced in our evaluation. And critics of the revival or whatever movement are not being honest if they themselves don’t deal with the good that have come out of the revival or the movement.
I’m not suggesting that we play a math game and that if there are more good than bad then overall things must be good. Rather, I believe there are explanations for everything. There has to be explanation for the bad. And there’s an explanation for the good. If we think this whole revival is fake because of some false prophecies or some people not being healed, we’re not being fair and honest because we fail to see the overwhelming good and the many healings that have occurred. The good doesn’t provide an excuse for the bad. As I’ve argued, the bad needs to be confronted and dealt with. If apologies need to be made, then it ought to be made. That’s the bad. To me, that just proves that there’s imperfection in the revival. It doesn’t mean I can go from seeing the bad to generalizing that everything is bad and the revival is fake.
Revival proponents who think that everything is just perfect and that there have been no mistakes or imperfections in this revival are clearly imbalanced in their evaluation. If they see only the good and refuse to acknowledge that there’s been bad, then their opinions aren’t that credible. But in the same way, critics of the revival who only point out the bad and don’t deal with the good aren’t being balanced in their evaluation either. And there’s a lot of both kinds of opinions around.
I’m not afraid to admit there’s been a lot of questionable stuff in the revival and that’s why I’ve provided links to extremely critical articles. But here I want to respond to those who point out the bad, but dismiss the healings completely. Jack Deere mentions in his book, Surprised by the Power of the Spirit, of a lady in his non-charismatic congregation who suffered from depression and had a lot of struggles in her life. She spent years in Christian counseling without much improvement. But when Dr. John White, a charismatic, ministered in his church on the topic of healing, she was instantly set free after some time of prayer and deliverance. Whenever I think of this testimony, I wonder to myself how many more people are like this person who struggled emotionally and who needed healing but didn’t get it for so many years because their church or pastor didn’t believe in such charismatic practices?
By all means, point out the false prophecies. Point out the non-healings. But if that makes us criticize everything and demonize everything charismatic or of the revival, then we’re just going the extreme opposite direction. It’s easy to criticize people when something wrong clearly happened. But how about criticizing those when something good should have happened but didn’t because the people were closed to God’s Spirit? Unlike the situation whereby a bad clearly happened and everyone recognized it (e.g. in a false prophecy), an equally bad situation whereby God’s Spirit didn’t move because we were resistant to Him is different. In the latter situation, it’s not so clear that we erred in our lack of openness to God’s Spirit. But we clearly did.
How about all the people in the same state as that lady above? I’m sure God desires to heal many others emotionally and physically, but because of the pride that leads many non-charismatics to be closed to learning from certain good charismatic practices, how many people continue to be in bondage and how many people remain unhealed? And of course, no one criticizes pastors and leaders who are responsible for not bringing their congregation into the fullness of what God wants for them. But in reality, there should be criticism there.
There have been many people healed in the revival. To reject it as demonic just because of some errors is wrong. If Todd Bentley is to be criticized for his false proclamation of that healing (and I think he should be), then those people who throw everything out because of some errors ought to be criticized for the people not going to the revival and not receiving their healing because they are influenced by the extreme negative criticisms. In the same way that Jack Deere ought to be criticized (and he has already confessed his wrongs) for his long time rejection of the Spirit’s power in healing which probably resulted in many people in his former congregation not receiving healing and freedom, non-charismatics and those against the revival ought to be criticized if their words have indirectly caused some Christians not to be more open to God’s power and thus miss their chance to receive their healing.
My point isn’t that everyone who goes to Florida or who is open to the revival or who goes to a charismatic church will automatically be healed. Nor am I suggesting that everyone should go to Florida or accept this revival as good or accept everything in the charismatic movement. Rather, my point is that we should be honest enough and realize that many people have been healed at Florida and in charismatic churches. And could it be possible that these people probably wouldn’t have received their healing if they hadn’t gone to Florida or if they hadn’t gone to a charismatic church which taught on healing and the power of God to heal - just as that lady in Jack Deere’s church probably wouldn’t have received her healing if the leadership in the church had not invited the charismatic Dr. John White to minister there on healing. Therefore, let us not just criticize the bad. We should do that. We should deal with the bad. But we should also realize that if we prevent good from happening to people, that’s a bad too. That ought to be criticized too.
I think I’ll stop here for this post. In the past few weeks, even more blog posts have been written on the revival than when I started this series. And a lot of negative ones too. I want to accept the good and praise God for the wonderful healings as a result of this revival. And eventhough I’m generally more positive towards the revival, I’ve also read a lot of negative stuff that have concerned me a bit. Not to the extent that I’ll reject this revival as demonic. But as I’ve said here, I think there are concerns that need to be brought out into the open, and not ignored. I’ll touch on more of them in my next post in this series.
In my previous post, I linked to various articles and blog posts on the revival and also commented a bit about my experience of previous revivals. In this post (and the next) I hope to share some of my own thoughts on the revival:
Firstly, I have no doubt a lot of what’s happening is of God because of the healings and miracles. I think the ultimate way to judge any revival is through its fruit. It’s the same way to judge miracles and healings and all. Sure, the devil can counterfeit miracles and healings and also revivals and manifestations. But if overall what you see coming out from a Christian meeting (be it a revival or healing or whatever) is people loving Jesus more, then I have no doubt God was in it. When we see weird manifestations happening that we don’t understand, all we gotta do is find out if the person involved has come out of it loving Jesus more or not. That may seem too simple, but I think it’s biblical and based on the Mark 3:24 which says that, “If a kingdom is divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand.” Satan would never counterfeit a miracle or manifestation if the person ends up loving Jesus more. Satan doesn’t do things that builds God’s kingdom! He does things that build his own kingdom!
Another thing is that a lot of people go there to seek God and their healing. They don’t go there to glorify the devil. And I have more faith in God’s ability to heal and in His compassion and love to answer His people’s prayers for healing than in the devil’s ability to undermine God’s desire to bless and heal His people. When we ask for something good from our heavenly Father, He’s going to answer it (Matthew 7:11) and not going to allow demonic activity and deception to reign in a place where He is being glorified and earnestly sought after.
Having said the above, that doesn’t mean I think that everything in these revival services are of God or that God would be pleased with every single thing that goes on in these meetings. On the contrary, and as I’ve said many times, I strongly believe that God moves through imperfect people, imperfect circumstances and imperfect theology. And I think there were a lot of that in the Toronto Blessing, in the Pensacola Outpouring and probably even now in this healing revival in Florida.
I’m a strong believer in grace. But I think a lot of these anointed ministers have sometimes preached “mixture” more than pure grace. But I have no doubt that God still moves through them. I think a lot of people (including myself) would be uncomfortable with some of the weird practices that we see in these revival meetings, and perhaps also the focus of these meetings (which oftentimes is the manifestations). I think perhaps God would not have liked the way certain things were done. But I have no doubt that He still moves through these people and still blesses many people.
Let me give another example. In my early days, I used to be a huge admirer of Benny Hinn. But then when I heard how he taught some outrightly unbiblical stuff (and attributed such teachings to the Spirit telling him such is so), I started to be cautious of his ministry. And I know there’s also been a lot of concern about his ministry’s finances - in fact, there seems to be a lot of concern about the finances of many big (charismatic) ministries, especially those from the Word of Faith tradition. Personally, I don’t think God is pleased with the way a lot of these ministers handle their money - especially since they seem to benefit a lot personally from a lot of the donations people give to their ministry. And anyone who knows me or has read my view of money would know how I would feel about such Christians. And I also don’t really like the way Benny Hinn does things - his showmanship on stage and all. I so much prefer such ministers to be humble and not showy - a good example of such a minister is Heidi Baker who has such a humble disposition in everything she does and it shows so clearly on stage. So I’m not crazy over some of his theology, his ministry’s handling of finances and his showmanship. To say the least, I think he’s less than perfect in many ways. I have a lot of things to be critical about regarding his ministry but that cannot prevent me from believing that God moves through him to heal many people. I would definitely bring a friend in need of healing to his meetings if I could. I know God has healed many people through him and I see Jesus being glorified in his meetings. This only brings me to the conclusion that God blesses and uses imperfect people and move through imperfect circumstances - and thank God for that because we’re all imperfect!
It’s good to read too that the leaders of the revival also know that not everything happening there is of God or is totally perfect as this quote by the pastor of the church at Lakeland demonstrates:
Todd [Bentley] and I know that not everything that’s happening here is of God. There’s a whole lot of flesh going on here as well.
I’ve seen videos of the services and at times I was not totally comfortable with a lot that was going on. This has nothing to do with the healings. I stand in awe of all that God is doing through healing so many people! But I’m uncomfortable with the hype and the self- and revival- promotion. I’m uncomfortable with the fact that sometimes there’s very little solid teaching - or any teaching at all. And perhaps the greatest thing I’m uncomfortable with, and I think the thing that most people who be uncomfortable with at first sight of the revival services, is the messiness, weirdness and disorderliness of what’s happening - and especially the bizarre manifestations that are often seen on stage and in the congregation, which J. Lee Grady talks about in his article. I know that these manifestations - especially when they occur on stage - offend a lot of people and have caused them to label these meetings demonic. I understand the concerns of these critics. I myself am uncomfortable when the focus is on such manifestations. But I’m also very careful not to judge just because I’m uncomfortable. A lot of what I see in Florida was there during the Toronto Blessing times. I think the message was different and God moved differently. Florida is a lot about healing and miracles. But the manifestations (laughter, body movements, etc.) are very much the same.
One reason why I’m careful not to be too critical of these bizarre manifestations is because I know when God comes in power, things start to happen to people. Simply put, they start to be overcome by the presence of God. Weird things may happen. Messiness in the congregation will probably result. Things won’t be so orderly. I believe that’s what happened in past revivals of centuries ago. Maybe not that dramatic, but I’m sure there were a lot of things that occurred that would make many people uncomfortable when the power of God comes. Of course, there may be the flesh working and no one in the revival doubts that, as the above quote revealed. I think the important thing to note is not to draw attention to the manifestations and not to allow the manifestations to take the limelight. The manifestations aren’t manifestations of the Spirit per se, but the body’s response to the presence/manifestations of the Spirit. People react differently. Some may do so to copy others. Others may do so genuinely as a response to the Spirit’s presence.
For me, while I’ve been to a lot of such meetings where people exhibited manifestations, I’ve never experienced such things. If anything, I do long to experience an overwhelming presence of God like they have. I haven’t experienced God like that but I’m not going to be critical of people who are genuinely experiencing something of God. I’ve had a lot of negative experiences. I’ve been on the receiving end of pushes (and so have given out ‘courtesy falls’) when people prayed for me. I think it’s wrong to push others and all. There’s no need to stimulate a fall by pushing people over when praying for them. I think this is an area where people seek to replicate certain manifestations and that’s wrong. (This results when people are too focused on the manifestations and think that such manifestations are badges of holiness or spirituality). It’s an abuse still quite common in charismatic circles. But this abuse isn’t going to make me critical of everything because I know many people are experiencing the real thing - the real overwhelming presence of God - and we all have to be thankful for that.
Rob Rufus has some wise thoughts here:
We cannot say that everything that comes out of Florida will be God. There has never been a revival where everything is God.
…I spoke to Terry Virgo while in the United Kingdom who heads up hundreds of churches around the world and he recognizes that the power of God is there. They are genuine and there are genuine miracles. He is saying that as a movement they don’t necessarily embrace the whole package - there are some things they would have questions about.
There’s nothing wrong with having a few questions - there’s nothing wrong with not understanding everything. Put some things up on the shelf. Everything must be tested but by and large I want to strongly say that God is on the move all over the world and what is happening in Florida IS God. There is no question about that. That is God. But everything that happens through different levels and different doesn’t necessarily represent everything that we would agree with. Behind this passionate, enthusiastic face - there is a thinking mind! I am going to test everything through right theology and all of that - and all that I don’t understand I will put on the shelf and I will wait.
…There has never been a revival - not one - where all three (God, the devil, the flesh) didn’t manifest. Some people are pointing, “Look, some of that stuff is fleshly… some of that stuff is demonic… that doctrine is a bit of heresy over there”. Yes I know - but God is also moving powerfully! You will never have a revival where you can get rid of flesh, get rid of the demonic trying to come in
Commenting on his experience of previous revivals, Terry Virgo writes:
What influenced me most significantly was not the extraordinary physical manifestations but the extraordinary lasting change that I observed in the lives of people I knew. Many displayed a new love and devotion to God and a new sensitivity to the Spirit’s presence. Some embraced a new commitment to Christ and his mission to win the world for his name. The physical manifestations gradually faded but the transformed lives have remained.
Ultimately, it’s not about the manifestations, but about positive change. I may be uncomfortable with some of the manifestations but I’ve seen and heard about a lot of positive change in the lives of those in previous revivals and that’s really the main reason why I’ll never say these revivals are demonic.
So while I’m uncomfortable about this and that and while I’ll disagree with the way certain things are done, ultimately I do believe (for now) that this revival was sent sovereignly by God and that He’s moving powerfully in Florida and even throughout the world.
In my next post, I hope to share my thoughts on the criticisms that this revival has received.