Another bill johnson quote that speaks volumes to me about this subject:

Bill Johnson: “It’s difficult to expect the same fruit of the early church when we value a book they didn’t have, more than the Holy Spirit they did have…”

I come from a very legalistic letter-of-the word background that totally denied the Holy Spirit. I am slowly undoing some of the bad impact of this on my life. I have been in charismatic churches for most of my adult life now and am growing so much.

I am thinking now that reading scripture without the relying on the Holy Spirit to speak to us something fresh and convert logos to Rhema is as dangerous as and grievous as trying to live a life out of principals and knowledge of ‘logos’.

We are told not to grieve (speaks of lack of character and sin that offends) the holy spirit but also not to quench (stop the flow of, stop up the power of) the Holy Spirit. Crossing either of these two boundaries is bad news and learning to live within without tiptoeing on the edge of our preferred boundary will require me to change.

For me thats learning to listen to the Spirit each time i open up the word and not being surprised to see something different or hear something different. It also requires me to learn to use discernment and be humble and teachable, and to be ok with making mistakes (in a safe and accountable environment) in order to grow into full maturity. The ephesians model church where all the gifts are at work in their office (or appointed place in the body) is for that purpose ‘maturing of the saints’. I have grown so much by being in a church that has a Prophet, Apostle, Evangelist, and teacher all doing their thing in full release.

For others staying within the above boundaries might mean grounding themselves in scripture a little better so they don’t risk get too ‘flaky’ or deceived.

Balance is the key – i totally agree with your post here. And i do See Bill Johnson as being someone who is well balanced. The modern body hasn’t really been taught well to use their discernment and know how to use the H Spirit inside them to know if what they’re hearing and interpreting is truly God’s heart. I hope i grow in this.

Good point there regarding Satan taking Scriptures out of context. I think that’s where one has to be careful. And Johnson doesn’t deny that he’s got it wrong at times.

I think a good grasp of Scripture is very important. When Johnson talks about God speaking through Scriptures (in an “extra-biblical, not taking into proper context” way), he would agree that this kind of hearing God through Scriptures will definitely not contradict Scripture – which is probably the way the devil used Scripture. Thus in that sense, it’s unlike how the devil used Scriptures. In these special circumstances, I think it’s the fruit that will ultimately determine if it’s from God or not.

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I think one of the things that make people uncomfortable about taking the scriptures out of context is that when Jesus was tempted in the desert after 40 days, Satan himself quoted scripture, albeit out of context), and Jesus responded in turn with the scripture, which demonstrated an example for the need of a strong understanding of the scriptures.

And dare I say it, memorising it as well! (Although that tradition seems to be diminishing in our modern churches and sunday schools)

Good to see you commenting here. I guess I’m quite interested in God’s voice that does not have much to do with Scripture – extra-biblical which isn’t anti-biblical. I think this includes what Johnson is saying because while he would be open to hear God’s voice (extra-biblical, in a sense) through Scripture, he wouldn’t equate what he hears as Scripture. For example, if Bill Johnson felt through reading verses on resurrection that God is trying to tell him that this person who is dead would be resurrected, he would acknowledge that this is in a sense extra-biblical and we can’t tell through Scripture if his impression is from God or not. Or if God tells you to go over there to speak to someone, that’s of course not against Scripture but you also wouldn’t say it’s Scriptural. And if God (or someone) reveals to you that this person is facing this or that issue in his/her life, Scripture isn’t really going to help you to know if what you hear is from God or not. For all these cases, the bible doesn’t tell you if it’s right or wrong – only the fruit will show if it’s from God.

Of course, if you feel God is telling you to divorce your wife/husband, surely that’s not from God as Scripture has something to say about that. This extra-biblical impression is anti-biblical and thus is definitely not from God. But for other areas that are not directly dealt with by Scripture, it’s really hard to gauge if it’s from God or not – except by seeing the fruit.

So I think there are lot of instances of hearing God where the Scripture doesn’t help a whole lot in determining if it’s of God or not. This may be slightly discomforting when abused of course, but there have been wonderful and edifying fruits too in the charismatic world when it’s not abused. As has been widely documented, even the Reformed and Presbyterian John Knox received extra-biblical prophetic revelations.

Which makes the whole idea of taking scripture out of context slightly discomforting.

That being said, I do wonder about the NT writers and whether they did do that.

The Gnostics did take a great deal of OT out of context in their writings. Who’s to determine whether the gnostic version or the NT is right?