An overview of the meeting
We had an awesome meeting on healing and JGLM last Saturday with a whopping 65 people turning up from different churches – of which probably half are either from New Creation or formerly from New Creation. I shared a little about my journey into healing and my experience in the States meeting different groups of young people living a lifestyle of healing, then Alastair and others also shared about their journey and involvement with John G. Lake Ministries (JGLM). We also shared a bit about what we learned from Curry Blake and the sacred cow doctrines related to healing he destroyed for us – and how that affected our thoughts on, and practice of, healing. We had a time of Q&A, prayer for healing and then most importantly a time of fellowshiping and connecting with others interested in healing.
The idea of an informal meeting first came about when I asked Curry for his contacts in Singapore so I could find people to learn with and put into practice this message of healing – and also with whom I could invite Curry to Singapore in future. Curry referred me to Alastair (an Australian who’s the representative for JGLM for Western Australia and Asia) who said he’d be coming to Singapore. He knew a group of Singaporeans (including Michael, Wilfred and Eddie who shared on Saturday) who had been to a Divine Healing Technician (DHT) training in Perth in May. He told me to organize an informal meeting for those interested in Curry’s teachings and so I planned for a meeting and invited some of my friends – some are familiar with Curry’s teachings, but most had only heard a bit about Curry through me. I’d initially planned for about 15-20 people, but many more than expected showed interest and people started to invite their friends and there were a few who came (whom I didn’t know before) who got to know of this event solely through this blog. There were people from around four independent (inter-church) cell groups, two of which focused on the prophetic, another on grace and another on healing. Then there were people who came who were involved in the School of Supernatural Ministry. While not everyone knew much about Curry and JGLM, I think almost all knew of Bethel Church and Bill Johnson – and John G. Lake. We had a few students who are either starting or continuing Bethel School of Supernatural Ministry this coming school year and some who are going to Randy Clark’s School of Healing and Impartation in Sydney later this month where Bill Johnson will also be ministering.
Steps forward: Active encouragement of each other
Some people have asked me what’s next and Alastair and some other Singaporeans who have been influenced by Curry’s teachings have discussed how we can go forward from here. The turn out showed that there are quite a number of people interested in learning more about healing and practicing it too. I think this is super exciting – I believe it’s only in the past 5 to 10 years, and especially in the past year or two, that many Christians (especially internet-savvy ones) throughout the world have come to realize that God can use them to heal people. I think Bill Johnson and Bethel ought to take a lot of credit for that as they’ve influenced so many Christians around the world. Nowadays, you’ll be able to find tons of people who have posted YouTube videos and/or written blogs (see below) sharing how God has used them to heal people on the streets.
I’ve had quite a few people tell me that they are interested to go to the streets to pray for people. My heart is to see people encourage and challenge one another to learn more about healing and practice it in the streets and as a lifestyle. It took me more than two years from the time I started to get into Bill Johnson’s teachings to step out onto the streets and to do this as a lifestyle. Two things helped me in stepping out: 1) Curry Blake’s teachings which totally destroyed everything in me which said that I can’t or wasn’t ready yet to heal the sick 2) Being around people (in America) who were living the life, going to the streets and practicing healing as a lifestyle.
Before encountering Curry’s teachings and doing it with my friends in America, my mindset was pretty much:
This thing works but I have to learn more, pray more and work on this and that in my spiritual life. Without all this, I’m not going to get much success. I need a while more to do all this then I’ll feel ready enough and I’ll come out with a blast!
Now it is:
I am ready already because I have all things in Christ (authority, anointing, presence, open heavens, etc.) and even if I step out now and don’t see many healings, I’ll be learning along the way and perhaps the best form of learning is through practicing. I can’t wait to step out everyday and pray for everyone I see who is sick!
I am just beginning on this journey and still learning tons from other people besides Curry. But I’m still going to the streets to put into practice all I know because I don’t think I have to know it all or reach some spiritual level before going out and seeing people healed. And through going out and putting into practice all I know, I know I will learn even more.
I’ll be arranging for a gathering of Christians (I’ll post about this soon) interested to learn more about healing and also going to the streets to practice healing. I’d like to create an environment that includes the two things above that helped me greatly to step out – 1) Studying good teachings on healing (e.g. from Curry Blake, but also from others like Andrew Wommack and Bill Johnson) 2) A community that will encourage and challenge each other to step out. It’s all about learning together, encouraging and challenging each other. No one is an expert, but we don’t have to be an expert for God to use us because this is for every Christian :) That’s what makes it so exciting! We just have to keep renewing our minds by learning about healing and meditating on Scriptures and practicing it. Before long, we’ll be doing things that most Christians would never expect we could do. And we can do it simply because Christ is in us and we have His anointing that abides. Hallelujah!
Steps forward: Resources
Here are some resources that have been instrumental to my learning – and they are all free!:
1) Curry Blake’s Divine Healing Technician (DHT) training. The best foundational teachings on healing around. It’s long, but I think everyone who has heard it would say it’s well worth their time. Will transform your thinking on healing! By the way, those interested in more of Curry Blake’s stuff can email me at idealist at stillhaventfound.org and I could send you more stuff.
2) Andrew Wommack’s God Wants You Well, The Believer’s Authority, A Better Way To Pray and You’ve Already Got It. Also check out Killing Sacred Cows and Living In The Balance Of Grace And Faith.
A lot of what Curry Blake teaches in the DHT are in the above teaching sets by Wommack. There are nuances between the two on healing – I’m more with Curry when it comes to healing. But Wommack is stronger on grace and he’s probably my favorite teacher/preacher overall.
I’ve listened to most of the above teaching series at least twice. It takes time for all these teachings to sink in especially when you don’t hear all this often in churches – in fact, you hear a lot of the opposite. It’s really all about adopting a New Covenant mentality/identity in relation to everything – including healing. The church is filled with teachings based on the Old Covenant mindset and way of doing things – even the charismatic and prophetic sections of the church. The Old Covenant is all about lack, disqualification and asking for something that we in the New Covenant actually already have in Christ! Focusing on the Old Covenant doesn’t give us the faith to believe we can heal whereas understanding the New Covenant and who we are in Christ encourages to believe that we can heal people. By the way, Pastor Joseph Prince doesn’t talk a lot about healing but his whole ministry is focused on the New Covenant and that has also helped tremendously.
3) Blogs: Ryan’s Revival or Riots Ministries, Brandon’s I am a Spirit, Michael’s The Jesus Method and Nick’s Lyfestyle Ministries. I met all of them when I was in America and they’ve all influenced my life. Thank you guys and keep living it out!
4) YouTubes: There are tons of YouTubes on street healings and other good healing stuff like from Revival or Riots or Whizzpopping (Brandon above). Or just search for “Todd White” or “Pete Cabrera”. My favorite (everyone’s favorite?) is probably the disneyland healings.
5) Healing Forums: Two forums on healing that I sometimes go to are JGLM Life Teams Forum and Roger Sapp’s Christian Healing Forum.
Curry Blake’s coming to Singapore!
Yay! The date would be around Feburary 2011 :) Churches or Christians interested to be involved with his meetings here or getting him to teach at your church can talk to Alastair. Email me at idealist at stillhaventfound.org and I’ll put you in contact with him.
i have a few questions and I hope I can get some answers.
I understand and believe that it is our rights to receive divine healing for our bodies.
What I do not understand why it does not manifest itself consistently and effortlessly.
It seems to imply that that there is an element of faith and thus kind of work. Is’nt God willing to give us freely as long as we are ready to accept.
I believe that both Andrew Wommack’s and Curry Blake’s premise is that we are all healed. We need to believe it. Andrew even suggested that if we have the faith, we should not be seeking the medical system or medicine as this is of the world. God will take care of it. I am very uncomfortable with this kind of suggestion. Maybe my level of faith is not at that level. Having said that, it should not be my faith or my ability to have that kind of faith. God has freely given me this gift.
If healing is a prevailing like what they claim with statistical success of 80%, it should make big headlines. Hospital should be emptied.
If there are people raised from the dead, it should make more newspaper headlines.
I wish more can be verified medically, scientifically and statistically. I have a Christian friend who offered to write and collect evidence systematically, he was rejected by most of these people. He is a strong believer in the area of healing.
So far all the sessions I had visited, I do witnessed isolated testimonies. But to those who really seeking desperately, many went back disappointed.
It is a still a mystery to me. I believe what the Bible said that we should be healed. But I am not seeing the full manifestation. There must be something I am missing out and do not understand.
This sharing is my personal walk with the Lord. Behind every work of the Holy Spirit is salvation, restoration, maturity. If we use our finite mind to reason, we will be disappointed or God is not God at all. We hear many voices even within christian circle, different school of thoughts. In my most darkest hour, the inner Voice reminds me , ” My sheep hears my Voice and follow Me. ” That ends my confusion when I simply receive without doubt and act on it even it blows my mind. Jesus is the Truth, indeed the Truth set me free and I am free indeed!
When Jesus set free, He sets free physically, emotionally, mentally and spiritually. It depends what it is needed first in that person, it works in the supernatural realm. It is also working in believers. Growing believers will grow to see.
Every life encounters, are like Jesus bringing me places with Him, allowing me to exercise the mind of Christ in me & my authority as a royal priesthood. God confides to those who love Him not those who work for Him. We can do the right thing with the wrong motives. I was and sometimes can still live life in this way but I thank God for His Grace towards me and He discpline me as His legitimate child. Not easy in the heart but it challenges one unto submission to Lordship. The same gift can bring harm as well as blessings if the giver gives without discernment and wisdom. Our God is a wise Giver. Ask, Seek and Knock is my daily activities to unveil the mystery of Christ.
Regarding illness, I have the same questions as you. My health brings me a journey of teachings from the Lord to listen to His voice. Until we learn to listen and follow, life have many things that remain a mystery and it is for those who hunger after Jesus who will receive the answer. Every answer is found in His Word read with His Spirit. No man can give you the answers because it can only be satisfied by God who knows what, who and where you are coming from.
Sometimes, we need to unlearn to relearn.
Paul, thanks for your excellent questions. I have questions like that and more. In fact, I’m compiling a list of questions I’m working on and I regularly interact with people more experienced in the healing ministry and get their answers for my questions.
1) Andrew Wommack has a series entitled Living In The Balance Of Grace And Faith. I haven’t listened to the whole thing, but I will soon. I think one of the things he says is that both grace and faith are needed and they are not mutually exclusive. Emphasize one at the expense of the other and you may not get results.
I think the more revelation of grace we have, the easier it is to exercise faith. However, perhaps we may understand or experience a lot of grace and yet not exercise faith.
Is faith merely passive and an open hand receiving God’s blessings and healing? Or is there a sense in which faith is active and aggressive? There seems to be a bit of a tension between the view that an aggressive spiritual war is at hand on the one hand and that it’s all about grace and rest on the other hand.
I’m not answering your questions, just asking more :)
2) I think Andrew and Curry wouldn’t tell anyone not to see doctors. But I do agree with them that if our faith is ideal, we wouldn’t need to use worldly medicine or consult doctors. This is what I like about them – they are honestly talking about the implications of their radical beliefs in healing. I think they wouldn’t see doctors themselves. But if they do, they would acknowledge that it is a failure on their part, not a failure in what they believe. Now, there’s no condemnation in going to the doctor and there’s been a lot of abuse in this area. Curry warns us not to “prove” our faith by not bringing out children to doctors. So there are dangers. Be it unto us according to our faith. Overall, I think they are spot on in what they believe that God ought to be the healer every time. But we must be careful not to try and muster up faith or whatever and don’t go to the doctor just to prove that we have faith.
3) I do take 80% or 90% with a bit of healthy skepticism like I mentioned. I’d like more concrete proof too. However, I may be wrong and Curry may be seeing that high a percentage. Who knows.
4) Has your friend tried to talk to Curry?
5) The issue about people going back disappointed without their miracle is something that saddens me greatly as I’ll share in one post soon. It makes me extremely disappointed but also makes me want to understand more about healing and seek this area more so that I can minister more effectively in future.
One thing I loved about the friends I met in America is that some of these people are going after this thing hard. They are thoroughly dissatisfied with seeing people not being healed. And that only makes them want to understand more about healing and how to minister more effectively.
I love that kind of attitude, because that’s mine too. If our interpretation of what the Bible says is true, then there has to be better results and fewer disappointed people. We don’t know it all and a lot of things are still a mystery to us, but that’s not going to prevent us from pressing on and growing in this area.
Like you, I have a lot of questions. Let’s keep in touch and share what we learn. Meanwhile, let’s keep on going out and healing the sick and learning along the way!
I’ve asked the questions you’ve asked, and am still asking the same questions!
I guess anyone who is experiencing chronic sicknesses and has seen their loved ones suffer and die of illnesses–even after lots of prayer–will ask these questions. I mean, if healing is so ‘hard’ to receive for some of us, it begs the question if it’s really a free gift, and if God wants us healed more than we want to be healed as is often taught.
But I’ve told myself that I can give up and be bitter and disillusioned, or I can just press on in humility and remain teachable. Somehow, God has always pulled me back. I think He really wants me (all of us) to press in. That’s just God’s style when it comes to His kingdom secrets–He doesn’t just throw them on our laps whether we are interested or not.
That’s why I appreciate what Jonathan is doing–getting like-minded folks to gather and learn more.
In my younger days, I used to breakdance. It’s funny but I learnt something. If you want to do a new move, like the windmill, just keep on practising. I had this attitude: My body CAN’T do this now, but if I’ll just keep trying, one day it will happen. That’s how I mastered many of the acrobatic moves.
I think the church is missing this attitude today when it comes to healing. I mean, we’re still arguing about whether it’s God’s will to heal. And even for many of us who believe that God heals, we don’t practise it enough. Like, Curry said, unless we make it a lifestyle, healing won’t flow through us.
A time must come when we stop ‘learning’–thinking that we still aren’t ready–and start doing. :)
I have been to Curry’s course, experienced personal healings, witnessed many signs and wonders including the lame walking.
In “Finger of God” and the “Furious Love” movie, you will find Jason Westerfield healing in the streets. In the latest movie, he was not having any result in first situation he was shown in and was his usual self in the next – i.e. there seems to be a set of conditions that one must be in before divine healing or miracles can occur.
John 5:4 (Amplified Bible)
4For an angel of the Lord went down at appointed seasons into the pool and moved and stirred up the water; whoever then first, after the stirring up of the water, stepped in was cured of whatever disease with which he was afflicted.
Mark 9:29 (King James Version)
29And he said unto them, This kind can come forth by nothing, but by prayer and fasting.
Even our Lord Jesus mentioned the need to have certain conditions fulfilled.
I have no definitive answers as to what are those conditions as it could become a doctrine by itself.
I used to spent hours and hours trying to find answers until one night when I was woken up at 3:00am and a Voice said “I am perfect; I am beyond logic.”
If you have been to Curry’s course you need to listen records ones again or read DHT Manual.
“Even our Lord Jesus mentioned the need to have certain conditions fulfilled.” and you put your own answers in Scripture but it’s not the Truth.
We can’t use verses out of context.
John 5:4 – it was Old Covenant method of healing. Now we have New Covenant
Mark 9:29 – Jesus talked about unbelief not kind of spirit. We need to read all, not only one verse out of context
Andrew Wommack does indirectly implied that if you seek to see a doctor, you are seeking solution from an earthly system that is corrupt. You need to seek solution from the Healer Himself.Actually, this is one area I have difficulties with some of Andrew’s teachings.
On the other hand, I still maintain it is a mystery that is not easily solved. I will not doubt God’s Goodness, Faithfulness and thus His full intention to heal. The scripture is clear. I fully understand the full meaning of “soteria” which is the full restoration of our being including our sins, our health and well being.
Paul also stated clearly that we live in imperfect world. There will be sufferings, imperfection, trials, persecution and tribulations. Sounds contrary to teachings by Joseph Prince? Anyway, I do not mention sickness as I can find concrete evidence of sicknesses in the early apostles.
Sometimes, I wonder about people like Nick Vujicic who has no hands and legs from birth. But he has been mightily used by God.
I will not say that God made him this way to glorify Himself. It is contrary to His Goodness and Love.
But rather, in an imperfect world, God is able to use all these factors for His Glory.
So, I do not expect perfection while I live in this world. I can expect good things but there are many forces, natural and supernatural laws that I cannot understand. God can use any negative circumstances to turn it into blessings.
Thus, it may be counter productive to try to explain God’s working and expect Him to do things the way we interpret in our human mind. Just trust His Faithfulness, Goodness, and Power. All things will work together for good.
We will be happier and closer to God this way.
Curry doesn’t believe there are conditions or hindrances to healing – only those you think are hindrances. (The only condition I guess he’ll say is faith, though it’s not about the large amounts of it). At this moment of my journey, I tend to agree with him.
I’ve also been searching other authors on healing that have similar views (i.e. the only condition is faith and little/no doubt), although I know the majority of Christians who teach healing believe there are conditions (sin, not enough anointing, unforgiveness, etc.) – which is a good way to explain the failures. But adopting such a viewpoint (that there are many conditions) I believe has an effect on one’s faith and I’ve read – and people have told me – that until such people moved into a position of believing in no conditions (or that it’s just faith and little/no doubt), their healing ministry didn’t really take off.
That’s the same for me. I never dared step out before listening to Curry. Listening to Curry made me believe that there are no conditions for healing – except faith. Until I realized I had it (actually Him) in me to heal people, I thought why bother doing healing when there are so many conditions! I’d probably won’t be successful coz it’s so complicated!
I’m not saying I’ve got it all, but definitely the view that there are conditions restricts one’s faith in stepping out and praying and believing people will be healed.
Curry answers the question about John 5:4 here. Regarding the prayer and fasting, it’s a possibility that “this” refers to doubt, not the demon, as people like Wommack believe. Again, the above are their views and I’m not saying I agree with them – nor that I’m disagreeing with them. I think the basis of what Curry teaches still stands though.
Paul, I like what Andrew says coz I think it’s the implication of such radical teachings from Andrew and Curry. Again, I don’t think they’ll ever tell people not to seek medical help or to throw away their medicine (that would be pastorally unwise and may get them into trouble) because it’s really up to each individual person’s faith. There’s no condemnation too because there’s just no condemnation in Christ Jesus! So I’m OK with their views on this. In fact, I would be troubled if they don’t believe in such a radical position because their teachings demand it.
I believe a lot of the trials mentioned in the Bible, if not all, have to do with persecution. I still haven’t thought through enough about this area of suffering and so I dunno what to think of what JP teaches. I also don’t know what he believes in and I don’t think it’s clear. But I do believe that far too much of the church is imputing trials to God which are really not from him. I think this has to do with one’s view of the sovereignty of God. I’m reading a really excellent book highly recommended by Curry called God At War.
Anyway Paul, I’d disagree with what you wrote in your last few paragraphs if it means not to think or expect too much and just settle with what we’ve got and know God is in control and will work all things for good. I think it may seem spiritual to adopt such a viewpoint, but I find that passive and non-conducive to radical and expectant faith that draws the miracle from God! Surely there’s a risk involved in expecting too much for you’ll be disappointed with failure. But I feel that’s what we need – to press in and believe everything is possible to him who believes and to not accept anything less. Is there a place for mystery? Maybe yes. But I think Christians talk about mystery far too early. If anything, everything else should be exhausted before talking about mystery. Mystery is our very absolutely last resort and speaking of it too early may result in us not pressing in and persevering for the healing at hand. That’s my concern with Christians who speak too often about conditions or “mystery” – it takes away the responsibility to believe God for the healing that may take its time in coming, but would come if only perseverance occurred. Anyway, that’s my view at this moment. Thanks for your sharing! :)
The only reason why I use the word “conditions” is because it seems to fit what the Bible says, it is not meant to be a definitive answer as I mention, discourage anyone or to confirm popular “sacred cows” as Curry loves to put it.
I defer to His Word for any matter.
On the contrary, if the our God, Creator, Lord & Saviour said, “Heal the sick,…”, we do it and we keep doing it.
Mark 8:23-30 (New Living Translation)
23 Jesus took the blind man by the hand and led him out of the village. Then, spitting on the man’s eyes, he laid his hands on him and asked, “Can you see anything now?”
24 The man looked around. “Yes,” he said, “I see people, but I can’t see them very clearly. They look like trees walking around.”
25 Then Jesus placed his hands on the man’s eyes again, and his eyes were opened. His sight was completely restored, and he could see everything clearly.
Keep it simple, be simple, be a sheep and follow the Shepherd wherever He leads you – that has been my personal guiding principle.
The only Person that is authorised to have all the right answers is the Holy Spirit, ask Him.
Luke 11:10-15 (New King James Version)
10 For everyone who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened. 11 If a son asks for bread[a] from any father among you, will he give him a stone? Or if he asks for a fish, will he give him a serpent instead of a fish? 12 Or if he asks for an egg, will he offer him a scorpion? 13 If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him!”
If you look at the foundational teachings and the early influences of JGLM you will soon realize what Paul said when he told us that a little leaven leavens the whole lump. 20 yrs in the Pentecostal/Charismatic movement, some in Foursquare, AOG, Vineyard planting churches, leadership roles and ministering in power, seeing healings etc. caused me to repent and seek God’s forgiveness and grace for believing a lie, the final straw being the 2010 DHT at Toowoomba. Look at what is being taught in the light of the whole of scripture and it wont take you long to see the gaping holes in these shallow heresies.
“Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves.
(Mat 7:15 ESV)
Beware church for there are many wolves already amongst the flock and has been ever since Christ was here and take heed to our Lord and Savior.
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’
(Mat 7:21-23 ESV)
God is God and I am not.
While I’m open to comments and constructive criticisms of JGLM (or anyone or any organization for that matter, for constructive criticism is always good), you’ve given no grounds for your accusations. Not very good, bro :(… It’d be better if you say something a bit more substantive than that.
I’ve listened to about 4 DHTs in all including the Toowoomba one. I don’t fully agree with everything Curry and JGLM teaches, but to me you come across as a reactionary, especially without telling us what you dislike of the DHT in Toowoomba and just throwing out Scriptures of judgment like that.
I can see you have a lot of experience (much more than me) and that’s wonderful. God changed my life in a Pentecostal church and I appreciate the Vineyard church association and tradition (though at the moment don’t agree with their theology of healing, which I actually did for about 10 years or so). So I’d love to hear your views if you could actually temper your tone. I don’t exactly like Curry and others being too dogmatic and overly-critical either, for your information. I understand sometimes radical statements are needed, but throwing out statements and scriptures insinuating that this or that person is a false prophet or unsaved is a bit too much for me. Get real – you may disagree with people profoundly but you have no right to judge them as false prophets or judge their salvation. Most people don’t appreciate heresy hunters or the like. Cheers!